Paul Ryan and Joe Biden: A Tale of Two Catholics?

By Andrew M. Greenwell, Esq.
9/5/2012
Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)

It is in the area of intrinsic evils where the comparison of Ryan and Biden as a 'tale of two Catholics', falls apart.

Given Joe Biden's support for what his Church has identified as intrinsic evils - and thereby persistently against the common good - and given Paul Ryan's position consistent with the indisputable and unchangeable teachings of his Church on these issues, it seems that what is involved is not a "Tale of Two Catholics" but rather a tale of one Catholic and one . . . well, whatever we call him, it is something considerably less than Catholic. An intrinsic evil is always against the common good, regardless of the circumstances. No Catholic politician can advance an intrinsic evil.

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CORPUS CHRISTI, TX (Catholic Online) - This election season we are presented with some fundamental contrasts on a whole series of levels, politics, economy, health care, and so forth. But perhaps no contrast is more interesting than the contrast between two supposedly Catholic vice presidential candidates, the Republican Representative Paul Ryan and the current Vice President, the Democrat Joe Biden.

Numerous articles have been written on the face-off between these two under the title, "A Tale of Two Catholics," for example, the Huffington Post, the Washington Post, the Underground, and CBN News.

Now political differences are political differences, and they ordinarily do not touch on fundamental matters of faith and morals. This is because politics, which has classically been defined as the art of the possible, is, in the main, involved in prudential decisions.

There simply is no "one right answer," much less "one right Catholic answer," when it comes to issues relating to elements of social welfare, the budget, health care and assuring access to it, and similar matters that relate to the common good. People can have all sorts of opinions--all of them very probably valid--regarding the proper application of Catholic Social Doctrine's main principles such as solidarity, subsidiarity, the preferential option for the poor, and so forth.

Ordinarily, therefore, it is in bad faith to demonize your political opponent by suggesting he is being untrue to Catholic social or doctrinal principles merely because he has a political opinion different than yours. Where prudential decisions are involved, I would go so far as to say that it is always in bad faith to suggest your opponent is untrue or unfaithful at the level of doctrine. Here, the saying often erroneously attributed to St. Augustine, but actually stemming from the 16th century Archbishop of Split, Marco Antonio de Dominis, applies: "In necessary things unity; in doubtful things liberty; in all things charity."

In matters of prudence, we truly can have a tale of two Catholics.

But the general rule does not always apply, and we might say it is subject to an exception when there is an intrinsic evil involved. No Catholic politician can advance an intrinsic evil, for the simple reason that no person can, in the exercise of prudence, advance an intrinsic evil as something that is in the common good.

An intrinsic evil is always against the common good, regardless of the circumstances. At best, they ought to be worked against. At worst, one may have to tolerate an intrinsic evil because to extirpate it would cost more good than good gained through its suppression, or cause more evil than the evil reduced by its suppression.

For this reason, St. Thomas Aquinas famously stated that prostitution--an intrinsic evil if there ever was one--may have to be tolerated, since "in human government," there may be instances where "those who are in authority rightly tolerate certain evils, lest certain goods be lost, or certain evils be incurred: thus Augustine says: 'If you do away with harlots, the world will be convulsed with lust.'"

Whether an intrinsic evil ought, in a given civil society, be suppressed or tolerated is generally a prudential decision which would depend upon the evil involved, the virtue of the population, its legal traditions, its homogeneity, and other pertinent circumstances.

Some intrinsic evils, however, cannot be tolerated without an abrogation of the government's legitimacy. A government that tolerates rape, incest, torture, murder, or genocide, for example--and one must here include abortion--for example, has serious questions as to its continued legitimacy. Failure to support the natural institution of marriage is another such abrogation which puts into question a government's legitimacy.

But toleration of an intrinsic evil in those circumstances where it may be warranted is something altogether different than promotion or support of an intrinsic evil.

And it is in the area of intrinsic evils where the comparison of Ryan and Biden as a "tale of two Catholics," falls apart.

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1 - 10 of 70 Comments

Julius
8 months ago
I'd just like to applaud Rob for defending his position with courtesy and nobility of character. That is what we need in discourse today. Hateful remarks and baseness of character have taken us far enough the wrong direction. Good people build good nations, and humanity is too precious a thing to entrust into the hands of people whose attitudes toward their neighbors are sub-par. No, we are not all perfect. We are all angry or cruel at times, or act without thought for one another. But to lead a country, and to teach a nation, you have to be held to a higher standard as a man, friend and brother. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ryan does not seem like such a man from the things I've heard come out of his mouth.
Rob
8 months ago
vance, I made an agreement with a friend of mine regarding 2016. I told him I would waste money on that garbage if he went with me to see the campaign immediately after. Since we were going to have an afternoon of wasting our money, I felt it was fair. 2016 was well done. Cinematography was great etc. They definitely had a budget. But I was struck with how many assumptions they made. In fact most of the movie felt like psychic friends network talking about what he was going to do. And the folks in that movie were just lapping it up as if it were all true! Maybe they have a crystal ball, I don't know. And yes, Obama had a mother and father, who may have had their own world views. And maybe those world views impacted him. But it just does not change the fact that he was duly elected and IS OUR PREDISENT. Everyone has a world view that is shaped by their lived experiences, but it does not mean they copy it verbatim. But as far as the movie went, probably could be a good pilot for a new 24 series etc...entertainment.

Funniest comment came from my friend after watching the Campaign.....he said, "It's all a bunch of BS isn't it?" I told him, I don't know if it all is, but I suspect most of it is. If in your worldview Obama is the antichrist, communist marxist, then there is absolutely nothing this man could do to ever sway your view. How you aren't equally as mad when the other side does it escapes me, but that is your right.

But let's be honest. When you guys call our President a marxist, communist who hates America, you are not being kind or JoAnn says, telling the truth. What you are doing is basically tearing down the man. Personally, I find that talk about our President to verge on being treasonous, free speech notwithstanding.

JoAnn, I did read the books. And as I said before, so what? The man has a different life experience than you. He grew up differently and did different things. He sees things differently. We all do. Personally I found the book kind of boring...sort of like someone trying to be deep but isn't really. Personally the book was nothing more than a campaign prop no more than Romney's. I'm sure you read that book as well and all throughout I was struck by what an effort he is taking to remake himself. It's like there is the man Mitt Romney and the politician. It's just weird. I wish the guy would be himself.
vance
8 months ago
Rob, before I finished reading your post, I used up a 1/2 of a box of Kleenex. Rob, your Dear Leader not only tells us who and what he is, but also (((( Demonstrates )))) who and what he is - a hardcore Marxist who hates Christianity and America. Dinesh DeSuza's 2016 Obama's America lays it all out very well. The guy was born to a Communist Party activist father and grew up a Communist Activist. Nikita Khrushchev called it almost right, "Americans will raise the hammer and sickle themselves". Half the country with your help raised the hammer and sickle in 2008. At least many of them have buyer's remorse but then there are millions who are glad to raise that hammer and sickle again in 2012.
JoAnn
8 months ago
Rob: By the way, Dr. Beller admits she didn't write that sentence, it' s been floating around for awhile. She said it at a campaign rally in Chicago while talking to a group called "Women for Romney." She was running for State Senate of Illinois, which, by the way, she won. No blog here either. God bless.
JoAnn
8 months ago
Rob: Truth is truth. I have never, ever called you an idiot and you know it. AND, I have never, ever repeated anything I have seen in blogs. What I have writen, and the quotes that I relayed are quotes from the people that I had heard with my own ears. I have been studying history for a long time. My interest was perked up the day I heard Bush, Sr. talk about the NWO. It was when the Berlin wall came down. Every since then, I have been paying close attention to what both parties were up to. I have read so many books, it's a wonder that I'm not blind. AND, everything reported to you about Obama came straight out of his own mouth. You really need to read his books and listen to him when he is being interviewed or giving speeches. No one is name calling. How is calling someone a Socialist name calling? It's just like calling someone a Democrat or a Republican. Socialism is a political point of view as the others. No name calling there. Now if someone is being called an IDIOT or STUPID. That would be name calling. I have never seen anyone on this board use that terminology directed to anyone on this here. A Democratic Socialist is a Democratic Socialist. They DO exist. Just as well as a Republican Socialist. Yes, there are some of those too. Our government is betraying all of us and I simply will not be respectful to traitors or treasoness individuals that are working to take our beloved country that God gave us down. Even Jesus got angry when the temple was being violated. As VANCE said, conspiracies have nothing to do with it. We should all question the people that are in Washington. Maybe if we had started doing that earlier, we would not be in this mess. And, Rob, as I said, I still luv ya, nobody's perfect, least of all me. God bless.
Rob
8 months ago
Well heck, if Barbara Beller of Chicago said the law was bad, it must be right? Basically her statement is just a bunch of tired talking points that have been muttered ever since this whole debate began. Notice how she weaves in things that have nothing to do with the bill? I bet she hasn't even read it.

But that aside, the bill is far from perfect. There are many things that I know our industry would have done differently and they are lobbying to try and change. And if we had a legislature that was actually working for the people, perhaps they could craft something that actually worked better for the people. But that requires legislators, of which today we have none. But not to worry, Romney will overturn Romneycare, woops I mean Obamacare the first day he is in office. Geez.
Rob
8 months ago
Guys, I don't even know how to respond to those comments. And honestly I don't even know why I bother. It's difficult to have a conversation where your response is merely conjecture at best, name calling and sometimes down right fantasy as I have always been quick to point out what simple snopes.com reports demonstrate. I think the issue is one of worldview. I have listened to you guys go on and on about how much Obama hates America. He's a muslim, not born here and on and on. I have heard just about every nutty conspiracy theory under the sun and have bascially grown to have the impression that in your world view Obama is basically the anti-christ foretold in the prophecy of who knows what to bring the destruction of the world. And based on your snarky comments etc, anyone who disagrees with you, as vance says must be some sort of socialist whatever or has JoAnn has so kindly put it, an idiot. I get it, Obama hates America and you guys are willing to burn the house down so long as he's not re-elcted.

My worldview is far from perfect. I am just as fallen. And maybe it's my upbringing, faith and time in the military that has shaped my approach to President Obama. I was taught as a child that you always respect your elders and authority. And because they may act like fools from time to time gave me no right to respond in kind. In the military we called this our military bearing. I believe our faith calls us to no different a standard as Jesus never said to respond in kind. In fact, he said quite the opposite, to love your enemies.

On election day we had a new president, President Obama. Being the solutions orientated person I am and believing in our democracy, I accepted that. As such, I have continually looked for the good in our President and have tried very hard to focus on the positive with the hope that someday we'd realize the election is over and support our President. If I learned anything in the military, division causes weakness. Sometimes it's been difficult to do so because I strongly oppose what he's done. But I will never ever say the things that have been said about this President. It's those things that make our division on full display to our enemies. And honestly, it showcases just how small we've become in our thinking.

I will apologize in advance that I have not been as forgiving to our GOP brethren. I guess at a certain level I feel much more violated when they lie to me as it's them who I have been giving my votes to. I feel much more invested. But folks, if in order to get your approval I have to ignore history (voting records) and begin the chant of muslim, socialist etc etc, then no thanks. There is so much BS mixed in all of that, that I can't believe you guys even buy it. But what is sad to me is that people have stopped ignoring voting records, facts and the like and want to continue to live this muslim conspiracy that has been woven since Obama took office. Makes for a great movie, proves a disaster for governance, as we continue to see.
JoAnn
8 months ago
Rob: Dr. Barbara Bellar, of Chicago was asked to describe the ACA in one sentence. This is what she said. "So, let me get this straight, we're going to be gifted with a healthcare plan we are forced to purchase, and fined if we don't, which purportedly covers at least 10 million more people, witihout adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a congress that didn't read it, but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a president who smokes, with funding adminstered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we will be taxed for 4 years before benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted SS and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke, so what the BLANK could possibly go wrong.? I couldn't have said it better myself. God bless.
JoAnn
8 months ago
Rob: I still luv ya. Nobody's perfect, especially me. God bless.
JoAnn
8 months ago
Vance: I do get winded once in awhile but I'll chalk it up to age. Rob reminds me of the guy in Star Wars. He's the one that said "These are not the droids you are looking for." That is what he is saying to you and me and others on this board that know what's going on. God bless.

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