Faux-Catholic Discussion on 'Sexual Diversity and the Catholic Church'

3/16/2011

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powerful, diverse and informed voices of the laity that believes in, and carries the banner for, the Magisterium.

The Catholic Church is not a democracy

"When the Connecticut Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in the fall of 2008, the Connecticut Bishops responded first with a public statement offered on behalf of all the Catholic faithful in the state (without their deliberation or consent) condemning the decision and arguing that marriage was not a civil right to be exercised by gay and lesbian people," said Dianna M. Swancutt, Associate Professor of New Testament at Yale Divinity School.

Without the Catholic faithful's deliberation and consent? Since when do bishops go to the Catholic faithful for a democratic vote on moral and ethical issues? Perhaps this series should begin with a basic introduction to what the Catholic Church is and how it operates.

This series of talks is based upon the notion that if only the Catholic hierarchy of Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope would listen to the little voices in the pews, they might change their stance on fundamental, foundational issues of theology and Natural Law.

I pray that this day never comes. Catholics should be thankful that the Holy Spirit speaks through the Catholic Church, not in spite of it. If Bishops needed to consult with the opinion of the Catholic faithful on issues that the Church has studied, both philosophically and theologically, since Saint Paul first put pen to paper, Catholics might as well become Protestant. This notion that the Catholic Church is a democracy is fallacious and ignorant.

What they should have done

If this series of talks had been about how the Catholic Church could better respond to homosexuals, while respectfully recognizing the long standing beliefs about sexuality and our view of marriage as a conjugal, permanent union of one man and one woman, it could perhaps be a profitable venture. Our methods and disciplines can always use refinement-but the principles and foundational truths need no reconsideration.

It is terribly sad when people, whether Catholic or anything else, object to homosexuality by dismissing the person and casting homosexuals aside as unworthy of our time and effort. We are called to love these people and treat them with charity and equal dignity. Christ didn't die on a cross for the righteous. He died for us all, whether gay or straight.

But to go from addressing the Catholic response to homosexuals, to the very foundational belief behind marriage and the sexual act, is dangerous and pointless.

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Billy Atwell contributes to Catholic Online, and blogs for The Point and the Manhattan Declaration. As a young lay Catholic and two-time cancer survivor he offers commentary on faith, culture, and politics. You can find all of his writings at For the Greater Glory.
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Pope Benedict XVI's Prayer Intentions for January 2013
General Intention: The Faith of Christians. That in this Year of Faith Christians may deepen their knowledge of the mystery of Christ and witness joyfully to the gift of faith in him.
Missionary Intention: Middle Eastern Christians. That the Christian communities of the Middle East, often discriminated against, may receive from the Holy Spirit the strength of fidelity and perseverance.

Keywords: marriage, gay, homosexual, family, Billy Atwell

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1 - 10 of 32 Comments

Brian
8 months ago
This entire thread is erroneous. The Catechism of the Catholic church states quite clearly... "1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters." 53" As Pope Benedict XVI so eloquently stated long before he took the mantle of Pope...“Over the pope as expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there stands one’s own conscience which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessary against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even the official church, also establishes a principle in opposition to increasing totalitarianism” The point here is simple...its what Jesus had said so very long ago. Judge not...lest ye be judged. (According to the same criteria.) You do not know what is written on another man's heart. How then can you judge impartially? Do you seek to take upon your shoulders the weight of the responsibilities of the Godhead? Leave speculation, conjecture, and judgement to the Wise council of the Divine and simply live your life with the love and compassion that Jesus lived his with. Allow others to follow their path, be it right or wrong in the eyes of God, God will be the judge. Our Father does not stand for lesser beings trying to usurp his authority and power...Don't sit in the Judgement seat unless you truly wish to incite the wrath of the Father.
eithena
2 years ago
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH THAT JESUS CHRIST MADE AND WE ACCEPT ALL BUT AND THIS IS THE BUT YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE PRECEPTS , OTHERWISE FORGET IT KID WE AIN.T CHANGING AND YOU CAN DANCE, YOU CAN SING, BUT THAT AINT GOIN A CHANGE ANYTHING
Art
2 years ago
ref: Billy Atwell says 'The Catholic Church is not a democracy'. That is a shocking statement and shouldn't ordinary Catholics resent it

The Catholic Church is the "Body of Christ", and is most Definitely "NOT A Democracy!".

ref: It implies that they should be like obedient sheep,

Yes, being a 'sheep', is much better than being a 'goat'!

ref: accepting any injustice done by the heirarchy of the church.

Just what 'injustice' are you talking about?

ref: If God designed some people to be attracted to the same sex, he must have had a reason.

It is not clear to me that 'God designs to this level'. But if he does, then homosexuals, like unmarried heterosexuals are called to be "CELIBATE"!

ref: Maybe it is because of the population explosion. In some fish, when numbers become too great, they change sex.

Human Beings are not Fish! We were designed in God's Image, not in the image of a Fish!

ref: Homosexuals have been persecuted,

Not by me, or my brothers!

ref: decimated by disease

If 'disease' is aids and other sexually transmitted diseases, then it is the homosexuals fault, not mine or the Church's!

ref: and exterminated in concentration camps.

Yes, some Homosexuals died along with the Jews, Catholics, Gypsies, Retarded, and other 'undesirables'! Why single out Homosexuals?

ref: Isn't it about time they were left alone to live their lives in peace like anyone else?

We are called to "Spread the 'Good news'", and to "Wipe the dust from our feet...".
I do not see the Catholic Church doing anything by Loving the Sinner, and hating the Sin! Homosexuals are very welcome in the CC, they simply must be Celibate!

ref: They are born gay,

Maybe, Maybe not! But, it's a non-starter! They are called to be celibate!

ref: they can't help it and to suggest that they should undergo operations or stay celibate all their lives is inhumane and heartless!

So, all Priests and those Divorced or Unmarried Celibate Catholics are living an Inhumane and Heartless Life! Me thinks not!!!

ref: Isn't there enough hate in the world?

Sure, and Allowing one to commit Mortal Sin is not Love, but Hate! Why do you Hate the Homosexual so much that you want them to go to Hell?

ref: Shouldn't we encourage love and long-term relationships?

I love lots of men! I do not have Sexual Relations with them though! Homosexuality does not automatically mean you have sex with the same sex! It means you have a leaning or a desire to have sex with them! That is Temptation, not from GOD!!

ref: I knew a gay couple who were respectful and devoted and lived together for over 30 years.

We all know 'gay people'.

ref: If they wanted to make a public declaration of their love they should have been able to do so.

They can do whatever they choose to do, outside of the Catholic Church!

ref: The Catholic Church is already too anachronistic,

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! The Catholic Church is the "BODY OF CHRIST!"
Do you not understand yet, little EWE?

ref: without this young man encouraging conservative views and intolerance.

What intolerance? And what is your issue with being Conservative? As if I didn't know? Does it infringe on your "lifestyle"?

ref: What right has the church to condemn people who are as good or faulty as the rest of us.

What Condemnation? Please explain? You've made the charge, now back it up!

ref: Some homosexuals are sure to be better human beings than many of the religious who claim the moral high ground.

If these Homosexuals are having Sexual relations with the same sex, they are committing "Mortal Sin"!

Please re-read the Catechism of the Catholic Church! Then re-read Acts, and listen prayerfully to what Saint Paul says about Homosexuality!

Try to not be a 'wayward sheep'! Do not lead others astray! You are Deceived!
Joanna
2 years ago
Billy Atwell says 'The Catholic Church is not a democracy'. That is a shocking statement and shouldn't ordinary Catholics resent it? It implies that they should be like obedient sheep, accepting any injustice done by the heirarchy of the church. If God designed some people to be attracted to the same sex, he must have had a reason. Maybe it is because of the population explosion. In some fish, when numbers become too great, they change sex. Homosexuals have been persecuted, decimated by disease and exterminated in concentration camps. Isn't it about time they were left alone to live their lives in peace like anyone else? They are born gay, they can't help it and to suggest that they should undergo operations or stay celibate all their lives is inhumane and heartless! Isn't there enough hate in the world?

Shouldn't we encourage love and long-term relationships? I knew a gay couple who were respectful and devoted and lived together for over 30 years. If they wanted to make a public declaration of their love they should have been able to do so.

The Catholic Church is already too anachronistic, without this young man encouraging conservative views and intollerance. What right has the church to condemn people who are as good or faulty as the rest of us. Some homosexuals are sure to be better human beings than many of the religious who claim the moral high ground.
Sandy
2 years ago
It is so sad that young adults support gay marriage. We have had a very poor educational system in this country for a long time. I am a Catholic, but you don't even have to be a Christian to see that "marriage" between two people of the same sex is not possible. These young people have not been taught anything about "objective truth." They thing they can make their own truth however they want it to be. They are believing a lie! God have mercy on us!
angel
2 years ago
A series to "lift up new voices that are rarely heard"???! From the so-called "love that dares not speak its name", homosexual activism has become "the love that won't shut the hell up". Soon enough they will have the upper hand politically and will be persecuting Christians in the name of tolerance.
Winifred Connor March 17th 2011
2 years ago
Today is my first time seeing this site. I found it very interesting and feel that homosexuality is a sin against God and His laws. God has given us the free will to obey Him or reject Him. Jesus said to pickup your cross and follow Him. He did'nt say carry it until you get tired, He said to carry it He is always there to help us. Some crosses are bigger than others I feel that homosexuality, is a cross that must be born with the help of Christ it can be overcome. We need to remember in our prayers all sinners, because we sin in different ways at different times ,but God is there to forgive us if we ask. Remember the woman about to be stoned Christ forgave her and said to go but sin nomore. We must be ever vigilent because satan never sleeps or tires of trying to destroy us.

.
Steve
2 years ago
People who have Same sex attraction have the right to marriage every gay man can take any woman to be his bride and likewise with the lesbians. Now where I draw issue is with the Transgendered people.. they say they are Christian and believe the Bible but then say that God put them in the wrong body. Seems to me that they would unite their suffering with Christ instead of surgery and forcing acceptance on us. God Bless
greg
2 years ago
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil. The dissolution of morality started a long time ago with contraception. The sex became a sport and stopped being part of marriage and family. Today only 4% of Catholics are supporting the Church teaching. Others have already shut down the door to their bedrooms on the face of God. And now, in fear you are fighting for something many of you desecrated. Repent. Change your ways and come back to God. God does not need your help in this matter. God needs you to be faithful. If you keep questioning the teaching of the Church then why don't you start questioning Jesus in the Eucharist? Why not question all of that? You don't want? Then what is with this contraception issue sticking at the back of your minds and whispering to your ears that the Church may teach wrong things? ...and avoid the near occasion of sins ... If you question one sin you will question more.
vance
2 years ago
Well here we go again. Today's news reports that the Marxist Democrat Party will submit legislation to over turn the Defense of Marriage Act signed by Bill Clinton. The Republicans vowed to defend the Marriage act. Again, those of you who say your Catholic how can you continue to vote for the Marxist Democrat Party?

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