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Gay marriage could result in largest persecution of Catholics since Reformation Comments

Over a thousand Catholic priests and 13 bishops and abbots have signed an open letter saying the effort to redefine the definition of marriage in England is the greatest threat to religious freedom since the Reformation. Continue Reading

1 - 10 of 26 Comments

  1. DLL
    2 years ago

    Civil or sacred marriage family is still father,mother and child. That concept is of great value in any society. The concept of family must not change. Man,woman,child is the foundation of society,any society,it is structure that we are trying to protect. Without the building blocks the whole structure comes down. Marriage is key to the structure of any nation,a major building block,traditional marriage must be protected. My sister had a civil marriage and it has been treated as a sacred one because their vows to each other ,man to woman,were sincere from the beginning. They are as truly in love as any who ever got married in any church.

  2. Gerald
    2 years ago

    The author is doing alot of speculation. It is nonsense to give a man-made civil marriage the same status as the sacrament of marrige created by God. No man-made law can change the sacrament of marriage created by God. Civil marriage is no threat to the sacrament of marriage created by God. There are believers and nonbelievers in our world. Civil marriages are meaningless.

  3. Theresa H
    2 years ago

    Rob, the problem with the idea of the Church accepting the government imposition (offering insurance for intrinsically evil procedures, medications, etc.) is that most Catholics would think that because the Church offers "it"/pays for "it" in its health plan, the Church must approve it and, therefore, it's okay to use it! (The logic is as simple as "2+2+2 = 6....) The Church cannot obfuscate re. intrinsic evils; it would be "complicit" if it "offered" them.... There's no way getting around these government "impositions" other than legal recourse and/or refusing to accept them, and suffering the consequences if there is no reprieve.... What a "witness" it would be if one of our Bishops was imprisoned for failing to provide for abortions and contraceptives, etc., in his Diocesan Health Plan! Or a Catholic man/woman business owner was imprisoned.... I pray this doesn't have to happen--but that's how grave the situation is these days--if the government doesn't give in and the Church (all of us, really) doesn't give in! But there is hope, the saying from the time of the early Christians is: "The blood of martyrs is the seed of Christians." And so, in this way, the Church has survived through all the persecutions over all the centuries before us and, we pray, will today! On the other hand, we (USA and Europe) are being swallowed up in a secularized, relativistic culture and we remember, too, what Jesus said about the "End Times..."!

  4. DLL
    2 years ago

    To approve gay marriage is fundamentally wrong as would be changing the laws of biology,physics or mathematics. The concept of family is fundamentally destroyed. The new rules make chaos the rule over anything fundamental. Gay people demonstrate that they suffer mental disorders more than they do from same sex attraction. I write this because the content of their expressionism is immature and deliberately insulting. Their content on the Internet is vile and it disrespects Jesus Christ specifically. Christians especially Catholics will suffer as it is right and just to stand against a group that insults Christ with such vigorous disdain. Gay Expressionism is disgusting and any Catholic in their right mind should respect Christ over some gay agenda that hates what Christ stands for. That goes for any government as well that mocks Christ.

  5. Theresa H
    2 years ago

    Rob, I understand what you are saying....Shall I say the "cobwebs" were already in many health-plans--even before Obamacare; but provisions for contraceptives and abortion were not forced on any business owners' in their healthplans. Now, with Obamacare, all business owners with over 50 FTEs are being forced by this Administration to provide for these "intrinsic evils" (just one example). This ("intrinsic evils") is why our Bishops are finally speaking up and filing lawsuits. They have to! IF the Bishops stand firm--as they must--we will see religious persecution in the USA like never before, unless the courts pull back--as they should! ..... (Amazing what this President has achieved as a "Community Organizer!") As for us, we cannot be complicit in acts that are intrinsically evil either. This means that if we own a business, there is a responsibility to reject the impostion--all the way to court--and give up our business if the Judge gives no reprieve (unless we have millions of extra $$$ to pay the daily million dollar fine!!!). We've already heard in the news of business owners going to court.... I think some are hanging on right now, and will pay the fine--in the hope that all the cases before the courts will, in the end, win out for religious freedom and be refunded by the government! (Lots of conscientious business owners in this boat!) If we just work for a business owner who complies with the government mandate--as long as we do not use the intrinsically evil services provided, we can continue in our job.

  6. Rob
    2 years ago

    Theresa, sometimes I wonder if the right course of action is to live a life in a manner that stays true to the church and gives ceasar what is caesars. Sometimes I think we are more focused on the appearence of something versus what is actually lived. For example, if a chruch's healthplan included drugs that are against the teachings of the church, I would much rather know that it doesn't matter what is offered because no one in my flock would use them. I sometimes wonder if we are more in love with the law than actually living the law.

    I hear zero, zip about folks dumping their healthplans via their employers who work for secular employers. I hear no outcries about condoms in grocery stores, gas stations etc. I understand why we have to fight these rules, but I think it's really too little to late. More optics than anything else. Almost like we are saying, so long as the church doesn't buy it, that is all that matters....we don't care a whole heck of a lot if you use it.

    I know I'm not saying this as well as I could....can't formulate it yet.

  7. Emma
    2 years ago

    Vance ..I just think that if we take our information from soundbites and the distortions perpetrated from mainstream media, we are allowing ourselves to be deceived. Whether that info be re. the youth culture, others different than ourselves or the Catholic Church. For every young person portrayed in that venue as being sex crazed and selfish, there are hundreds of good kids: just as for every abusive priest there are thousands of dedicated servants of God. Sensationalism sells! Fear sells! It's all about profits. Period. I also have friends who struggle with gender identity. They are good people! Tho I do follow church teaching, I'm not anywhere near perfect. As for the issue of persecution, we were told that we would be persecuted, but we were also told to turn the other cheek, to love, to not fear, to admonish each other, but not judge. What puzzles me is why so many who profess belief are still so afraid. When we speak with anger and fear, we feed it. We have to choose moment by moment what we will give life to. It's not a simple task, not by any means. I come here for news that I can't get anywhere else. I love the homilies :) . But I also come here to strengthen myself. I, like anyone else, can jump into the mix with the best of them! When I read the comments here, the greatest challenge for me is to take a moment, step back and then respond from a position of peace and confidence in my One True Father. This is a great training ground, for sure! Our Father conquered giants! called out kings! shut the mouths of lions! told the dead to rise! took the hands of orphans! gave sight to the blind! and yet we focus on each others short comings and react with fear?? Why? I think it's because like that rich man who "did everything right " we can't let go of worldly possessions. Anyone who thinks our church is dying needs to look around! My church is growing! Our bishop, Bishop Soto, *is* out in the community any very involved with homeless, youth and immigrants. That could be a factor. He likes us! :) Another difference is youth involvement. Our church doesn't have walls and if someone has questions or expresses an interest in Catholicism, we don't send them to church, we *accompany * them! We're there to answer their questions. That's how we evangelize! Come and see! Come and hear! Come and learn! Come and worship! :)

  8. Theresa H.
    2 years ago

    I agree with you, Rob, that we have brought all this on ourselves, little by little, by little, over the years of our lifetime. Now, there seems no way out and it looks like--if we are "faithful"--we are going to suffer real "persecution" soon. By that I mean: loss of our businesses, loss of our jobs, big-time, and imprisonment if we fail to conform! It is amazing how, in the USA, less than 10% of the population has so swayed most of the rest of us to at least accept the "idea" that "some people are made this way--by God!" So, are, e.g., cleptomaniacs "made that way" by God! Anyone heard of original sin....? (Practically speaking, at least, not very many any more!) I remember the first time I heard that song: "Imagine all the people...." It has come to pass. But God will have the last word and one day He will return....

  9. vance
    2 years ago

    Emma, good post. I am of the same Baby Boom generation as your parents, and yes, your background is very typical. The WWII generation and the Boomers were a very dysfunctional lot. You poor guys didn't have a chance. Worse yet was and is the American Catholic Bishops and priests who put their stamp and seal of approval on that "Free For All" condition. This was exactly what the WWII and Boomer generation didn't need. The results were millions of Catholics falling away while seminaries and convents went empty. The "Me Generation" Boomers opened the flood gates of drugs, sex, and abortion with not a peep from the Bishops. Emma, God bless you for your efforts. Hang in there and keep at it. The future promises to get tough under our current regime in Washington. We need all the good Catholics like you to make it through.

  10. Emma
    2 years ago

    Just to expand on my last comment. We don't listen to the music that the older folks here think that we do. I highly recommend any and all of these artists to any parent concerned with what their children are exposed to. They are wholesome, but not "boring": Chris Tomlin, The Newsboys, Toby Mac, Mandisa, Amy Grant, Natalie Grant, Brandon Heath, Steven Curtis Chapman, Bldg. 429, Addison Road,Matthew West,Kutless, Andrew Cherry,Jeremy Camp, Dave Barnes, Matt Maher, Third Day,Britt Nicole, Jason Gray, Revive, Lincoln Brewster, Mercy Me. Shawn Mc Donald, Josh Wilson, Among the Thirsty,Matt Hammitt, Jonny Diaz, For King and Country, Matt Redman, David Crowder Band (not recording anymore, but some great music still out), Todd Agnew, Group 1 Crew, Mikeschair, and Sanctus Real. That's a long list of contemporary Christian artists to choose from that have mass appeal (no pun intended) with young people. Toby Mac, number 1 on billboard.

    As for what young people watch on main stream media, I would like to remind readers that it is not the young who are responsible for programming decisions! The only concern that these network execs have is, "What sells?" If we as a group start supporting wholesome, family oriented programming, then and only then will the programming reflect that. So, please, support Christian Artists!! Quite a few of these artists take money from their own pockets to tour in the summer. Some of our music festivals were cancelled last summer because they couldn't repair busses and buy gas. They're not doing this for the money but to spread the message of God's Love to today's youth.

    If your kids like it loud..........I highly recommend Toby Mac, Chris Tomlin and the Newsboys. These guys all fill stadiums and the kids love them!! I'd like to leave off by borrowing a few words from a Chris Tomlin song. I'm sure he wouldn't object.

    "I know who goes before me
    I know who stands behind
    The God of angel armies
    Is always by my side
    The One who reigns forever
    He is a friend of mine
    The God of angel armies
    Is always by my side
    Whom shall I fear?" (Whom Shall I Fear{ God of Angel Armies}).....Chris Tomlin

    Check out some of these for your children. Almost all of these artists are on You Tube. Peace.

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