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Hudson & Fournier: Catholic Countdown to Election 2012, Day 25. Substance and Smirks Comments

There are Catholics like Joe Biden who claim to follow what is too often called the "spirit" of Vatican II while rejecting the very foundations that important Council proclaimed. Then, there are others, like Paul Ryan, who grasp the implications of what it means to infuse the values informed by their Catholic faith into their political participation on fundamental moral issues such as the Right to life Continue Reading

1 - 10 of 38 Comments

  1. Judy Claar
    2 years ago

    Catherine, I enjoyed the clarity of this response. Your heart is most honest, noble and sincere. In your prior post, the words most outstanding to me, was for us Catholics to be ChristLike. Indeed!

    That includes all of us of course, as we are only human. But I must remember to not let that be my excuse! And I dare say, that some of us with more "passion" than others, have to watch that that "passion" does not overcome us being Christlike. Sometimes it takes some doing. Sometimes we can walk a tightrope!

    Your second post allowed more understanding and clarity to that of the first for me personally. I am thankful that you wrote again. However, I still support Vincent Francone's statement to you. He summed his thoughts nicely with his last four lines beginning with IF.

    On that note, my sister, I leave you with my most heartfelt prayers and understanding. Our final goal is the same destination. Blessings...

  2. Catherine
    2 years ago

    Greeting my fellow sisters and brothers. My posting a few days ago was not aimed to play show-me-the-one-two-three in regards to Mr. Ryan's view. Why? It is available in the totality of Mr. Ryan's entire public life. Judy, I always welcome all the prayers with an open heart. And basically, that is the reason why the hateful things I read and hear from Catholics pain my spirit. Vincent, I am 100% Catholic and try to practice my faith daily. I do this by observing "The Great Commandment". As a Catholic, I passionately await my priest's homliy to speak to my Catholic heart about moral issues: Why? because as a Catholic I need these moral teachings to guide me on my journey home. The USA is not the Catholic Church; its made up of many peoples of many races, creeds and religious beliefs. I do not want anyone to enforce their religious views upon me, hence I desire not to do the same. It's my hope and prayer that others, Catholics and non-CAtholics alike see the Spirit shine through me and desire for what is seen in me.
    Do I believe that abortion is wrong? YES! Am I prolife? YES, pro-all-life.
    I believe that as a Christian, a Catholic, that my action is the way to draw others to God. With this philosophy, I want my Church to teach me moral values. When last, not during election year, have you been to Church and have a good moral teaching? Morality is down in our Church, not because of governmental policies, but because worship within our Church is down. My Catholic brothers and sisters we need to be the light that shine through the darkness. The very tongue we use to praise God cannot be used to speak hatred..
    1John5-10:....God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all..."
    Let's keep being witnesses to the light, fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
    Be blessed.

  3. Judy Claar
    2 years ago

    Rob, Your viewpoint sounds Good. It is honest and from the heart. I respect that. But take it from an old war hound: It sounds good on the surface, but I don't think it will make it. Why?
    Because it supposedly has been tried. Politics always, somehow gets in the way.
    The thing that I See a bit different this time, is that, R. is coming out and stating, promising, that he actually plans to do a few things on the road to removing the ghastly law. Anyone who ran before him did not. Is all they said was that they supported Pro-Life. And the voters accepted it like that was enough. THIS time IS different. A Pro-Life candidate is saying he will do >MORE THAN> support Life. He promised to start the ball rolling. To hopefully rid of us of PP, HSS Mandate, and Obamacare, which would at least be lawfully removing some of the death of innocents. The man is a Catholic's only True choice in my view.
    Your idea of sending in a candidate that proposed to undo Roe v, Wade is noble. Some Catholics would like it, Some Not . But would he get the votes? I think not. Romney is actually moving fast in a patient way. Like I said before, the Goal is getting in. Blessings...

  4. al
    2 years ago

    Abortion will not stop with the rules made by the state! We must be "above the law" and present a Christian face that is attractive to the world - abridging freewill will never work. Aligning ourselves with political power will never produce the results we seek.

    We are warned against the wealthy and powerful in scripture, we cannot put any faith in them.

    The message we must present is that government is by nature amoral. "There is no subjugated beast more dangerous and no master more terrible." Washington

    There cannot be faith in government in this. We must be the living proof of faith. Nothing else will work.

  5. Rob
    2 years ago

    Hi Judy,

    I am one of the folks who has grown up with abortion. And no matter how uncomfortable it makes us, we have to pray every day that this scourge ends. It's unfortunate that this law has been on the books for 40 years, but personally I think it does no one justice to allow that fact to escape the narrative if we have any shot at actually repealing the law. This law will never be repealed so long as there are exceptions made for abortion or the prolife talk is nothing more than a campaign issue but immediately drops off the radar once the election is over. Compromising for political expediciency is part of the reason this law stays on the books. In the end it does no one justice and we have 40 years of abortions as proof.

    As I see it, those of us who are seriously trying to vote their faith, have been doing so for quite sometime. And honestly I'm not really sure what it's done for us. Until we are willing to fire a prolife politician for failing to make this issue the number one policy issue, nothing, absolutely nothing will change. We cannot be instructed that life is the most important aspect in our voting decision, vote in that manner and then allow the elected official to stay in office when he fails to deliver. It's our failure to hold elected officials accountable for this issue to the same degree we are taking this in our vote that is the problem. It's not enough just to win the election and this issue can't get lost in the other issues that we keep telling people are not as important (economic, wars, etc). If life is paramount in our vote, then the work that follows has to comport to that as well.

  6. Judy Claar
    2 years ago

    Rob, I understand what you are saying. Yes, we Catholics would like to see a Real Remove Roe v. Wade altogether. But Before we can go forward we have to take inventory. We must acknowledge the way things have played out since and before Roe v. Wade. Yes, even going before its very inception. Democratic Catholics, have more than instituted their fair share of positive vocal comments to even have this law exist at all!
    The damage was done way back then- When I was not even old enough to vote. A fine kettle of fish we have...its been here so long in the hearts and minds of people, perhaps to make their life easier, they grew up with it, or whatever excuse or reason that one would like to give, that we now have, ever since I have been old enough to vote, an almost impossible battle, for a True Catholic to try and remove the stink. The stink I refer to is in the kettle of fish...the sin of voters at and before this law came into being. So, yes Rob, I am very well aware that voters older than myself help to put it on the books. I have told you that I belonged to the first Right To Life groups. I know how God awful sickening it is! Just remember this: Yes, that's All We can do. VOTE. Not vote party per se, Rep. or Dem. or some other name who will be useless, a no count vote, going to???? But we vote our Catholic Faith, as I have always done. (Not that i am perfect) And that Catholic Faith vote, goes to the Rep. or Dem. who is most in line with the Catholic Faith. The Catholic way of thinking. Natural law, etc.
    Good reason to be Independent?!
    So please, do not come at me or anyone else with this 40 years or more. Some of us have been fighting it for a long time. What can we do? Besides a Saviour, Jesus Christ, we puny worms can only Vote. I am sorry to tears it can not be perfect. But at least R/R gets a foot in the door over the Culture of Death. At least some innocents saved is better than none. At least it is a start. Do you know how long I have been waiting for a start toward Right To Life?? My whole voting career! I think soon I shall start saying what my Mom does. When she ends a conversation, and I say, "See you tomorrow", or, "Talk to you later, she says, "The Lord Willing". I say this because I have been waiting so long for this law to be repealed, that I too, will have run life's course over trying my best for the people I love, my Faith and my country.
    Rob, one person didn't build Rome. And they didn't build it in a Day.
    Gal.5:5 "We are led by the Spirit to wait in the confident Hope of saving Justice through Faith". Blessings my friend...

  7. Rob
    2 years ago

    Judy, Isn't it sad that the best we can do is select the candidate who will do the least damage? But I really do not think you can say that the RR ticket is for life. So long as they compromise as they have done (I was shocked to see Ryan do it), The whole thing stays in play. If you are going to allow abortions for the exceptions that Romney noted, then you are going to have the leave the machine running. The founder for the Walk for Life stated as much in her interview with Mother Angelica. It absolutely ensures that abortion remains. Evil is evil no matter how you spin it and given that both parties support it to a degree, then it's no wonder so many catholic's ignore it as an issue.

    As I listen to Catholic Answers, read the voter guides etc, we are told that there is no issue more grave in regards to our vote than life (abortion). But until this same approach is taken by our politicians in the work they do, abortion will remain. 4 years from now we will be having this same darn conversation again. Planned parenthood will still be here, abortion will still be the law of the land and I bet will still have deficits and debt. It's all becoming so pointless.

  8. Judy Claar
    2 years ago

    Vincent Francone: Well said. I was waiting for someone other than I, to pick up the quill and address Catherine. She has been prayerfully on my mind. Our Lord chose you, and you did a fantastic job. Your voice should go out to Catherine, and others who are in need of clear counsel. Thank you. Blessings...

  9. Lynn Barsalou
    2 years ago

    I sit in church every Sunday next to hypocrites like Joe Biden. My question is why doesn't the church ex-communicate these people and show the rest of us that they are serious about the teachings of the Catholic church. They are either with us or against us they can't be both.

  10. Vincent Francone
    2 years ago

    Catherine, I direct this comment to address your comments. I agree that Ryan is not Christ-like. Most people however would acknowledge that one of the differences between the two major parties involves perspectives on faith, in particular Christian faith. Unless you are rabidly partisan you must honestly acknowledge left wing affiliation with secularism, with outright hostility toward Christian values, with massive support for lifestyles and behaviors contradictory to Christian, and in the very real particular, Catholic faith. Are Republicans saints? Of course not. They are a political party full of politicians. But we are not debating religious rule, but political rule and the congruence of our religious ideals with those political ideals. The role of government if different from the role of religion. There is no necessity for government to feed anyone, charitable people can do so, and will. Healthcare is another area where discussing it in terms of religious ideals is absurd, disagreeing about whether it is ok to steal the future prosperity of generations down the road to fund the peoples needs of today I would argue is an angle it seems you have not considered the morality of. Again, charitable people can and would aid. There is a role for government to ban abortion, as individual citizens cannot . If you are a supporter of big government I whole heartily disagree with you for many reasons, all reasons we as Catholics can agree or disagree about and still be amiable and in good stead with our faith. But fundamental tenets are areas we are commanded not to disagree about, or we are not Catholic. Be wary of letting partisan politics get in the way of Catholic, Catholic takes precedence.

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