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Hudson & Fournier: Catholic Countdown to Election 2012 - Day 33: The Mormon Card and Losing the First Debate Comments

There is no question of who won this first Presidential debate. The news over the next 24 hours will demonstrate that this first Presidential debate marked a turning point in this critical election. The only question is how much - and how quickly - the poll numbers change? Continue Reading

1 - 10 of 16 Comments

  1. Rob
    2 years ago

    I have enjoyed Romney's shift to the middle. Karl, sadly I think you are right. I think for tonight's debate and the rest of them they just need to turn it into American Idol already....let us vote from a text from our cell phones and get this nonsense over with.

  2. KarlVDH
    2 years ago

    The bottom line is that we're being offered a choice between hamburger and ground beef, and we've been conned into believing one's better than the other. Don't let that stop the rah-rah, though. This is a country that vastly prefers image to substance.
    Go ahead and prove my point now, Vance.

  3. Rob
    2 years ago

    Mike, do you really believe that Romney believes in small government? His record in MA surely doesn't suggest that. I don't think any republican really believes in smaller government otherwise we'd have periods where it was actually smaller. So far the majority of the cuts Romney has actually described are costs that haven't hit the budget yet (Obamacare) and this is no different than Obama trying to take credit for "cuts" for wars we already stopped. Government will continue to grow no matter what party holds the reigns, it just grows differently. What they are really saying is that I am going to cut the government spending of the opposing party, but it's whole hog spending on our stuff. You think these guys bankrolling the campaigns are doing so just because they love our democracy, yeah right!

    I think we crossed a critical mass point years ago where government cuts actually hurt local economies. The government is so irreversibly involved in everything that to actually do the cuts we need, the impact to the states would be a fiscal disaster. Both men know this and it's precisely why after all the votes are counted, they will shake up a few things here and there, but the machine we call government will just keep chugging along....and will continue to grow. Maybe the best we can hope for is a different optic, because the underlying principles remain.

  4. vance
    2 years ago

    Mormons are not anti-Christ like Marxists. The choice is easy for me. I'll take a Mormon all day long over an anti-Christ Marxist.

  5. DLL
    2 years ago

    I have never seen President Obama struggling to find a word to say in answer to any of his perceived foes until this first debate. The day after he acted like an enraged child by calling his opponent a liar. Why didn't he simply call Mr Romney a liar to his face during the debate? I guess that must be unethical during a debate. My conclusion is that Mr Romney is ethical and respectful of the President,but President Obama is not when he is acting like a beaten child the very next day. President Obama can not take criticism. President Obama has no words when confronted face to face with the truth. He looks sheepishly to the floor and nothing is written there. President Obama wants truth to be the accepted lie,so that he can win the election. President Obama is a divisive personality. This makes him a poor President. If he was more humble and had a unitive nature,he would be the great Black hope. Instead he is the mystery of futility who loves being an Elvis Presley persona in the limelight of hype and rhetoric. Mr Romney is gracious and intelligent,a good American. He may lose the election but if he does,I am convinced that he did run for the Presidency because he sincerely loves his country. Wealthy people get criticized for having money but they do know how to handle it and if they manage it honestly in their personal lives,than they can be trusted to do the same in a public life. Mr Romney is economical and that is an asset not a liability for one running for the Presidency. The more we get taxed under the present circumstances the more wasteful the government will get with our taxes. President Obama still wants to continue to tax us all no matter what the current set of circumstances are. My ultimate political question is this. If the incumbent President is that good and really doing his job well,than why does he need to campaign at all? It should be a no brainier that he would get re-elected. It is the challenger that has to do the work to de-throne him. All this money spent to get these guys elected is a waste,it certainly takes too much of it these days.

  6. SaraPalen
    2 years ago

    the truth is the middle class IS getting squeezed. But when they are squeezed the poor get squeezed too. I have to spend a huge amount more on gas and groceries than I did four years ago. how much less do people give to the poor now, paying off their own cost of living? Obama, stop pretending nothing is getting cut to the middle class. My flex-spending account has been cut in half and premiums keep going up. My power bill has doubled because my company promised to use more renewable energy by x-year and it just isn't happening. They cannot afford it. It all looked good on paper. Now it is time to pay the piper. We have seen this ideology before. We have gone from the volks wagon to the volt wagon, from the cry for taxing the rich and class warfare in the 20s and 30s in a bad economy to the same, from the protection of the people legislation to the affordable care protection act, another enabling act under a democracy that was completly legal. From the pursuit of happiness to strength through joy. (hey, don't push your negative religious views on us- we are all equal and are licensed to our own happiness, and not only that, we will not tolerate yur Christian views anymore in our labor unions) .How long will a system sustain itself that cannot look at itself in the mirror and see the subjective side to health care- that you and I are the subject, created in the image of God-we are more than a "best practices", one size fits all, approach. when you do not recognize that image in the poorest of the poor there will be no hope and change for the better. We will be a "nation without hope". Your panel, Dr. Obama, (do you still admit when human life begins is beyond your paygrade? how about Sebelius, what does she a great doctor, I imagine say about this), will amount to similar white coats who determined human life was nothing more than useless eaters in the past. And who wants to go back to best past practices that mandated what the mission of the Church is and mandated sterilization touted free sex, pushed the youth not to believe what their pastors tell them? Obama, your answers are old and stale, and last night the tarnish wore off of your silver-forked tongue. Obama, I know the Africans have suffered greatly and been enslaved even here in a country spouting "democracy" and "freedom", but you spit on, you mock my faith with these mandates. You do not believe in our freedom to choose life. The slavery of abortion and sterilisatiion is ok as long as i don't do it on my plantation, right? oh wait I will have to pay for its use though, on my plantation, You make people think we do not care for the poor, and you do not realize that we are more than just the sum total of our "female parts". We are body and soul, in His image. How can I vote for a Mormon? How can I vote for someone who does not recognize his own image in the poorest of the poor? It is Obama that cannot recognize Christ in the simplest of human beings. Oh yeah, who wants to go back to the times of slavery when the supreme court justices said that they do not recognize natural law in conjuction with those two great documents behind the two in the debate. Obama does. He spits on the Declaration, he trades that in for the "civil, social man" made for and by the government. Obama, as the justice in the 1940s said in one of the world's most famous tribunals, even the king has to answer to God. I pray for this president and this country.

  7. mike robertson
    2 years ago

    Romney showed support for the common good. A smaller government, lower tax rates (including for those "evil" wealthy and "evil" businesses").., less spending..this helps the common good. Big Catholic-democrat government hurts the common good by thriving on covetousness and theft and making more people addicts of the government.

    None of this compares with stopping the evil man who supports infanticide-including after the baby is born-from getting more of his judges appointed and more of his czars in place to destroy the common good even more. Not to mention his arrogant idea that he knows more than God about what constitutes marriage.

  8. DarthJ
    2 years ago

    Why are my comments rarely posted?

  9. Paul-Emile Leray
    2 years ago

    The power of asking the right questions is important. Please have a look at the following:
    www.charlierose.com
    He is arguably one of the finest journalists I have been observing. See the following interviews, with Mr. Charlie Rose, found under tabs such as 'current events' or 'Arab Spring' or 'politics':
    -interview with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
    -interview with King Abdullah II of Jordan
    -interview with Princess Ameerah Al-Taweel
    -interview with the mayor of Los Angeles, Mr. Antonio Villaraigosa

    Notice what King Abdullah II of Jordan said was the core issue of the middle eastern peace process.

    Notice what he also said was necessary for stability.

    Notice what Mr. Antonio Villaraigosa said about the middle class. It echoes well with what King Abdullah II said about the middle class.

    In other words, a very vibrant and healthy middle class is important for stability.

    Also, notice how well so many in the middle east speak English; better than many North Americans!

    One main inherent problem with democracies is that demagogues tend to rise to power, especially in times of crisis. Extremists often come in as well during moments of chaos. Tribal mentalities exist almost everywhere. Look at the stadiums in North America filled to the rafters during sporting events. Tribal mentalities take place inside churches and mosques. Tribal mentalities take place on international, national, prefectural levels. They take place right inside large families! Look at history.

    Questions:
    1. Which American president will be best for the middle eastern peace process?
    2. Which American president will be best for international affairs?
    3. Which American president will be best for national affairs, domestic in nature?
    4. Which American president will best grow the middle class, vital for stability right in America?
    5. Which American president is strong, unifying, engages in dialogue, and can bring people towards moral objectives that are properly defined as truly being moral; while not using means towards those ends that are immoral? Imagine yourselves 3, 5, 10, 20 years out into the future. What do the answers look like?

    Morality and legality often do NOT equate. Always keep this in heart, spirit, soul, mind, body; BEFORE voting and while voting as well.

    Politically, Americans are the world leaders at this time in history.

    I do not endorse anyone. I am also not American. I will not be voting. However, since nationalism is just that, what takes place inside also affects what takes place outside often; especially in America's case.

    The solution to the Israeli/Palestinian peace process in the middle east? Look at the Prince of Peace if you are looking for peace! This seems perfectly logical to me. We see a mechanic to get our vehicle fixed. We see a dentist for a tooth to be fixed. We don't go to see an electrician when we need a heart operation, we see a heart surgeon when we need a heart operation. If we wish for world peace? Let us look at the Prince of Peace. And who was that? Jesus.

    There are many parallels present between the Pharisees and politicians. I hate to write this so explicitly as if to shout the truth with trumpets, since I know it will offend some, but facts are facts. Let us not be foolish and naive. I am not sure if a truly honest and truthful person could even survive in politics for very long, let alone attain to power and control to begin with. This having been said, if it is difficult to discern who will do the most good; then how about trying to discern who will do the least amount of damage either through action or inaction?

    I like what America could potentially do in the sense of at least trying to offer some sort of capacity for FREE WILL, in the Christian understanding of properly defined free will in the Catholic definition of free will, to be exercised in a political framework. Free will does NOT mean free choice. Free will, in an accurate theological/philosophical framework, means God given free will understood in the Christian sense as defined by the Catholic Church. (not by politicians, partisan politics, lawyers, judges, the state, nation states, journalists and so forth)

    Remember, Christianity transcends nation states. And long after governments have come and gone, Christianity will live on. The Roman Catholic Church will live on as well.

    Which president might help to move things along in the proper direction? And what is the proper direction?

    Very interesting. Let us see how all this plays out.

    Christian existentialism, properly rooted, as understood and defined by the Catholic Church: understand it and we will have world peace sooner than later. It IS possible.

    Wars? More of this 'us versus them' type of tribal thinking. Competition is often wonderful, but not always and not everywhere in all things.

    Unite around truth first, not tribes or ideologies. The tribal leader, the guru, is often just as lost as the members of the tribe or guru. Remember this as well.

    Nobody has a monopoly on God. NOBODY. (some seem to think they do)

    Governors have their places in society, but I don't want them to be acting as if they are my saviors. I have one savior. His name is Jesus. Until anyone can PROVE to me that he is Jesus, I do NOT want anyone speaking as if they have a monopoly on God. And actually, Jesus himself shared The Father. He did not isolate The Father in the sense of trying to hide Him. He revealed Him.

    We are here to continue the work of Jesus, period. This is the meaning of life for all humans, whether some understand this or not. It is that direct and explicit. The pathways vary for individuals, since we are all unique and graced with various talents and abilities.

    Aristotle: ends and means.

    We do NOT need wars, inside the wombs. We do NOT need wars, outside the wombs. Thou shalt not kill, means thou shalt not kill. This is NOT difficult to understand. It is so simple, that a 5 year old can grasp it. And yet? Adults seem to have a problem in understanding this.

    Peace, love, forgiveness; if anyone wishes for peace let them look to the Prince of Peace. The role model is Jesus. An apprentice usually tries finding the best teacher around. We do not need to look any further than Jesus. It is that explicit.

    There are Pharisee types in every nation, culture, religion, corporation, company, family, and so forth. Peel the onion to the core.

    Paul-Emile Leray

  10. Joe
    2 years ago

    You know the campagin commercial for the president that talks of the alliance that Romney has with China ? well I heard a line by line fact check expose on that commercial and Romney is being 100% misrepresnted and taken out of context and the president's union alligences are not being brought forward.


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