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Doing Good for Goodness Sake? An Atheist's Game of Scrabble Comments

In the order of being, there can be no natural moral law without the existence of God.  In the order of being, implicit in the belief of a natural moral law is the existence of God.  A moral law makes no sense without a Divine Legislator. Continue Reading

21 - 30 of 72 Comments

  1. vance
    2 years ago

    Juneau Alaska Mike, Separation of Church and State was an invention by an anti-Christian Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black in 1948. Prayer in public school was outlawed in 1962 by the anti-Christian majority of the Earl Warren Supreme Court when they ruled in favor of a lawsuit by Militant Atheist Madelyn Murray O'Hare. This is the same anti-Christian majority that legalized murder of millions of infants by abortion. I don't recall any complaints about prayer or celebrating Christmas in school. You are absolutely correct when you say there is no "Right" to NOT be offended. It is precisely that issue of "Being Offended" that Atheists use to stamp out religion. In a free society people are free to speak their minds. Often opinions differ and may be offensive to some. If I pray in Public Schools or in any Public Arena and any Atheist is offended, TOUGH Shish Kabob. It is my hope that the Supreme Court decision against prayer and For abortion will be over turned.

  2. judy
    2 years ago

    Juneau Alaska: Mike, Thank you for a most polite response. First I will answer your question. i find that you have overcome (on the outside) what ails you quite well. The fact that you meet in Baltimore, w/a group of your liking, says a lot: 1. Maryland is a predominately Catholic state. May i purpose that you may be a disenchanted Catholic for one reason or another? Perhaps it was home life? Church life? Not enough of it, to educate you properly about the heart? Maybe it was none of these. I do not expect you to answer. I will say this though: If one stops their spiritual education (I know you don't believe), in the 6th grade, or even 8th grade, it is the equivalent of having a 6th or 8th grade public education. And that does not get one very far in life usually, but there are exceptions. This is true for spiritual growth as well. If all Catholics stopped learning and being educated in the 8th grade, it is like dropping out of school in the 8th grade! There is so much more to learn! 2. As to the group: Vance, I know such atheists that Mike talks about in his group. And they are not amoral. In fact, quite the opposite. Mike's chosen friends, (i think) are what a Catholic turned atheist told me about his...they are his "chosen herd". This "herd", is comprised of mostly of: intellectual college friends and acquaintances, some very heavy science majors, some fallen away Catholics, some not, but because of their childhood background, and learning from school or home that it is good to give, (like Mike's group to charities, etc.), they can have a good time and feel good about themselves w/the support of "the herd". Now, unlike Mike's group of 1000 that meet, my friend and his group herd are different because they donate on their own and participate in community. I have been trying to answer Mike, and at the same time address Vance. I have been trying to show that the differences in atheists are not all black and white. Just as Reps. or Dems. are not. To answer you further Mike, most of this particular "herd", (and I am not labeling, just clarifying), I do know. And there are unhappy moments that come over them as we all have. But unbelievers, having no one to turn to but there own, and those who do not believe or Hope in a Life After Death...Can be brought to Depr. and Suicidal conclusions. Like the song: IS THAT ALL THERE IS? THEN LET'S KEEP DANCING, LET'S BRING IN THE BOOZE, WE'LL HAVE A BALL...IF THAT'S ALL..... Now comes your fact Mike. Suicide is the 4th Leading Cause of Death for ages 18-65 years. It has been on the rise and is rising. That my friend, is another subject, but one that is most plausible here. My response to you is getting longer than anticipated. I will send this in and continue....

  3. Juneau Alaska
    2 years ago

    DLL, my presence here isn't about converting anyone. I hope you, like the author of this piece can take me at my word. I don't have a Great Commission from Jesus like you! Religious faith negatively impacts the life of my family and I would be remiss as a citizen not to speak up from time to time. I simply object to the implication in the article that without gods (in this case Yahweh) one cannot be moral. I also see no evidence that natural law is anything but a human philosophical construction. I am not saying the latter is without value, I just object to the supernatural inferences. After all, Catholicism teaches their version of natural law, while Islam teaches a different version of natural law! Considering the rules of this forum, I would likely be violating the terms of use if I set out a detailed explanation of morality from my point of view as it would probably be seen as "openly opposing the teaching of the Catholic Church." DLL, I was the muse for this 1500 word article so I come as a guest to give my opinions. Regarding colder climes, it is not uncommon to find incorrect beliefs about Alaska. Southeast Alaska is considered the Banana Belt of the state and in point of fact sometimes receives little to no snow whereas one can snowboard on the white slopes of Mauna Kea in Hawaii! -Cheers! ~Mike

  4. DLL
    2 years ago

    Heaven is God,it is filled with love,nothing impure is there,sin is absent,hatred non-existant,it is the place of total harmony,there is no discord there,corruption has no place there. The love of God is a state of mind,body and soul. Heaven is music to the soul. Love is,as we are as followers of Christ,who is the Supreme example of just how we all wish to be like and should be like. Even Christ honestly had to admit that HE is the way,the truth and the life. He is one in being and in keeping perfectly the will of God,in obedience,through the power of the Holy Spirit. Love & Life is as God is within all creation.The Christian is one mind in Christ. That is their Heaven,being present in the fullness of Grace or in the fullness of God Himself. His Holy Spirit is in all and through all,acting in all,as all submit their will to the one true Spirit that has created all. God is actually the True and Free choice by faith of the truly real free thinkers. God is Love! That is real. That is fact to me. The atheist has his heaven now without God and possibly that way for eternity. His sense of heaven is my sense of hell. My sense of hell is a lifetime and eternity without God. God is Heaven itself to me representing everything as it was meant to be in creation and that is perfection itself,the perfect essence of love acting in all and through all. That is why when the atheist tries to understand me or I him\her it is all non-sense to both of us as we simply can never agree. The product of the number 0 times any number defines the sense of creation and of God to the atheist. The product of the number 1 times any number defines the value of God acting in creation and creating a singular value for all that are created for the culture of Life. Think about it. Juneau Alaska? The colder climates must be really tough at times! Take a trip to Hawaii. At least you can then say you have been to paradise. Cheers!

  5. Juneau Alaska
    2 years ago

    Judy, thank you for reading every single one of the comments. While I don't agree with many of your claims, some of your sentiments, inasmuch as they were meant to be kind, are appreciated. I'm really swimming against the tide in this forum trying to explain the difference between atheism and atheists and amoral and moral so I'll let that subject drift on by for now. I'll also let the love commentary float on by as it seems you are claiming some sort of copyright for religion on that subject! If I can ask you one question, judy, I would ask where were you taught, or how did you come to hold the opinion, that "most atheists are confused, hurt/injured?" I find that an interesting claim to say in the 21st century. For perspective, allow me to share the fact that I just came from a conference in Baltimore where one meeting hall had over a thousand atheists having a wonderful time supporting charities, science education, amongst many other altruistic endeavors. I look forward to your clarification. Cheers! ~Mike

  6. judy
    2 years ago

    Interesting Article! AND Interesting Posts! DLL, each one of your posts brought an unwavering holy breeze through the crevice of Love... if one would only feel its healing touch. I offer my condolences to you. Vance, Diane, Abby, JeanCatherine and others came through in their own unique way as well. @Mike, allow me to pick up on DLL's last article. Love. Let me say that Love is Not emotion. If you have Not experienced this type of Love, let me tell you, besides DLL, it does exist. And yes, some loves are Emotion. But we are going beyond that here. I wonder?... Do atheists believe in that type of Love? Or, because they do not believe in God, simply do not believe in it? Curious. I have always thought that most atheists were/are confused, hurt, or injured persons...Often wanting to make up for something that they are lacking or something that happened in their past=Nice atheists. Amoral atheists=are the kind Vance writes about, but still, belonging to what I have described here as Nice atheists. Perhaps not. Maybe that is just the Love in me that wants to see be prevailed in poor unhappy souls. God; Jesus; The Holy Spirit; The Three in One Invisible God is Love. If one knows God, they know Love. Not an emotional love. Maybe it is This Love, (God) whom you do not know or recognize? As most on this board know, This God, This Love, is an all- knowing, learning, experiencing and awakening Love...God. One cannot even compare Thor, Zeus, or Pixies to Him. Ridiculous! Muslims wait for their virgins in heaven... but do Muslims know and preach and teach and worship the Love of which I speak? If one does not know Love, they cannot know God. And again, I am not speaking ME, MYSELF, & I love. AND, one thing i do know, is that anyone that can be on this board, profess to be a happy atheist, signing off: Cheers! is either: 1. Pure Ego. 2. Searching for Love. Prayers and Blessings...

  7. Juneau Alaska
    2 years ago

    DLL, I'm sorry but I have a hard time understanding you. I propose a conversation about specifics. I've said a lot on this thread. Please look through my words and if you find something that is not supported by evidence or is unclear or not plausible, feel free to point it out to me. Thanks. -Cheers! ~Mike

  8. Juneau Alaska
    2 years ago

    First off, I want to thank the moderator of this forum for allowing this discussion to continue. There is a saying I try to use when I participate in forums. "Attacks against people are features of barbarism; attacks against ideas are features of civilization (Anonymous)." I think we've all been trying to adhere that ethic. Onward. Vance, I have three points I'd like you to consider. First, your argument about coins, money, and public school led prayer falls flat for one reason. Atheists, agnostics, and the religious fight together to protect the 1st Amendment's Establishment Clause. There are Jews, Catholics, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Wiccans, and non-believers who all agree that State and Church should be kept apart. My second point for you is a question with two parts: Do you want a theocracy in the USA? If so, which religion should be in charge, and if you don't want a theocracy, why not? Lastly, and this is an observation on my part, it seems to me many people (religious in particular, especially Muslims, but certainly many other faiths) walk through life in the USA thinking they have a right to not be offended. I'm sorry, but there is no such right and I'm glad there isn't! As I've said before, the truthfulness or falseness of a claim does not depend on emotion, only evidence. Cheers! ~Mike

  9. Vance
    2 years ago

    Juneau Alaska, I am amused by your grammatical hair-splitting gymnastics. Atheists make up a small percentage of the population BUT they have powerful representation in the ACLU and the Marxist Democrat Party. Oh yes, we have much to fear from atheists. They have successfully eliminated prayer from public school. They have successfully eliminated Nativity scenes and Cross Symbols from the public arena. Their success is due to the atheist ACLU hack judges in the courts. Right now, your Dear Leader in the White House is attacking the Catholic Church and the Constitution of the United States by denying the Catholic People the Right to Free Exercise of their religion. Oh yes, we have much to fear from atheists. They have zero tolerance for Christianity and especially the Catholic Church. Atheists have made serious efforts to get rid of "In God we Trust" off of our coins and currency. They were successful in removing the Ten Commandments from a court building. Little by little atheists have their successes in outlawing the name of Jesus Christ and God in public speech. So yes, we have much to be concerned about.

  10. DLL
    2 years ago

    The Agnostic,Atheist? I can understand why someone would not believe in God. I can't understand why they would be proud of it. I can understand people of all faith based systems and political systems and why they might stand by those belief systems. I can understand a criminal and why they would even risk death row to remain one. I can understand why someone would want to even worship the devil. The Catholic Faith? You have to go to Mass,sit listen and learn and be silent. Be Humble because under those circumstances it is God who speaks to the human heart. The Liturgy of the word and the Eucharist combine to make a very Holy Marriage and in Communion with those elements of the Holy Mass,Faith becomes vibrant and each individual is fed spiritually. The Athiest as a confirmed and proud one,is lost as far as the matter of faith is concerned. They are too proud and arrogant to accept any thinking that does not conform to their own. They seek a strange form of confirmation,however,as they are continually seeking their very own converts. But what do they believe? Precisely what they want to believe because to them no morality for instance is freedom,actually the ultimate point of view is to have none at all,that is the truest kind do freedom? At the point of death for anyone what was important really important them then matters. At that point your guess is as good as mine. I lost my wife of 36 years after a long illness. I had to be by her side to support her,I tried the best I could and I must admit I couldn't do it without the grace of God. Redemptive suffering is what matters. One has to find that out for themselves. The memorial is done and at her grave. Briefly to describe her memorial I will explain what it says. My Wife liked shamrocks so within a Celtic Cross their are shamrocks. The shamrock is the way St.Patrick explained the Holy Trinity to the Heathens when converting them. IHS in the Center of the cross means Jesus Christ Savior. I have a heart positioned on each side of the Cross,Joan loved hearts,one is for me the other is for her,2 hearts that were joined by God in Holy Marriage. The Hearts also remind me of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Our names are both on the tombstone,her birth and death and my birth,under that it says "God is Love! Love never Dies! ".That in the end is all that matters. The memorial is a tribute to God and to Christ who became the sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin and to my wife who loved me enough to sacrifice herself enough to love me and care for me and to be the best friend that I ever had. She once said to me that no one will ever love me like she loves me. It was true and that is what matters in the end. If an Athiest is happy that way fine but don't seek converts particularly on this website. Catholics simply strive to be one mind in Christ as they know also,that no one will ever love them the way Christ loves them,while He demonstrated to all that God is Love. The Supernatural World is Infinity. The Natural world is Finite. There simply is a World of Difference between the two. You run out of numbers to describe the infinite and the infinite cannot be simplified,or adequately,even ever,described! The Athiest tries to neutralise those two worlds to suit themselves and their very own understanding of how they think everything is. It seems to me that most of all,their personal moral viewpoints are to them,the superb ones. Self Justification and the approval of others for those who would justify themselves is extremely important. That is why some Athiests become dangerous to themselves and to others. It is simply their personal way of thinking,or the highway. Who really passes judgement,God or the Atheist? I think that no one will ever really love the Athiest like that Athiest loves themselves. Prove me wrong in that statement. Mr Greenwell it is time for another artical as I need your answer to answer,your friend and mine,Juneau Alaska- Mike. I don't think he will like what I have written here. Free Thinking? That is always includes 2 or more opposing points of view! Possibly a Saint,a Sinner or a Demon,who more can oppose the other? That is debatable! That is your commenter always one of those three,at least.


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