81 - 90 of 136 Comments

1. techwreck

   1 year ago

   The U.S. Constitution specifies that there shall be "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States". Catholics would be wise to honor that requirement. ... Our Church leadership is conducting a campaign to uphold the freedom of religion guaranteed by the Constitution. Catholics can't support upholding the Constitution while undermining it by disregarding its "no religious test" provision. That is precisely what Jones is doing by attacking Mitt Romney's faith.

2. J

   1 year ago

   I don't particularly care for Romney, and am not a Mormon, but I have known many good Mormon's. I am a Catholic. I would vote for Romney a billion times over Obama. Romney may not be what I want in a president, but I know Obama is everything I don't want in a president.
   It's good for us to know our faith, and other's faith and to be able to respond kindly and intelligently in discussing faith. When it comes to voting for President, I would take someone who holds on to their faith, even if I disagree with portions of it over someone who falsely claims to be Christian and then goes on to undermine everything Christian and what I believe to be morally correct.

3. David L.

   1 year ago

   This article misrepresents both Mitt Romney and his Mormon faith. I will not comment on all the many inaccuracies, but focus on just a few.
   
   The first one is that regarding Mormonism's "bad theology" that allegedly allows them to feel free to be either pro-choice or pro-life. The author correctly indicates that Mormons believe that an individual's spirit pre-exists the physical body (not created ex-nihilo at conception). However, there is no Mormon teaching that says that the spirit enters the body at birth. To say that this is what Mormons believe and that this belief allows some Mormons to be Pro-Choice is simply inaccurate. One could say that we do not have a firm doctrinal stance on when the spirit does enter the body, but I have never heard this used as a rationale among Mormons for allowing abortions. The fact of the matter is that the LDS Church, no matter how one interprets our doctrine of pre-existing spirits, has always had a very strong position against abortion. I know very few Mormons who are Pro-Choice, and of those who are, none who feel that abortion is a good moral decision for anyone to make.
   
   That leads me to why some Mormon politicians feel that they can be Pro-Choice. As I have stated, it has nothing to do with Mormon doctrine on the matter. Those who do feel it is appropriate that abortion should be an available choice do not do so, from what I have seen, because they personally favor abortion as an option, but because they take the political viewpoint that the government should not be in the business of telling people what they should do when faced with these types of moral decisions. My point is that it is simply wrong to try to tie Mormon politicians' positions on abortion or stem-cell research to the LDS Church's doctrine regarding pre-existent spirits or anything else that the Church teaches. Furthermore, Mitt Romney has always been personally against abortion and the positions he took in office as Governor of MA were very strongly Pro-Life.
   
   It is distressing that the author tries to persuade his audience that Romney is a "true" Mormon, with the implication that this should somehow diminish his reputation or credibility as a presidential candidate. His sincerity regarding his religion is not in question. Everyone knows that Romney has served as a Mormon bishop (he was a BISHOP -- no need to make the disjointed comparison between him as a "high priest" and the Catholic office of bishop) and that he continues to be faithful to his Church. It is concerning to me that some want to suggest that maybe there's a chance that he's not really so Mormon and that this makes him a more acceptable candidate. This author, unfortunately, takes this sentiment a step further and says, "No, he really is a Mormon and this should concern you."
   
   Finally, I have to complain about the sad comment that suggests that voting for Romney is voting for a non-Christian. If the author has spoken and read about Mormons as much as he claims, he should know better. I had the privilege of doing a degree at a Catholic university and I am grateful that none of my peers ever offended me by claiming that I was not a Christian. In fact, I felt very welcome and earned a lot of respect for my strong belief in Jesus Christ. As a Mormon, I tire of having to defend my belief in Christ when in the company of those who are unfortunately ignorant of our convictions. It is even more sad when those who are well familiar with our faith in Christ still find a way to classify us as "non-Christian." I am not so offended by the suggestion that we are not a part of "mainstream" Christianity -- a statement most Mormons would readily agree with -- but labelling us as "non-Christian" has far-reaching implications and overtones that are not acceptable. Our faith in Jesus Christ and his Atonement are the central tenets of our religion -- everything else is simply an appendage to this. Labelling us as "non-Christian" implies that we do not follow Christ -- we do. The opinion of the Catholic Church does not change this simple fact. That we do not agree with the Catholic Church on the specifics of the doctrine of the Trinity is the only real reason (that I am aware of) that our baptism is not considered acceptable. I have not seen any statement from the Catholic Church that declares that Mormons are not Christians -- unless the author can demonstrate that this is the case, he is mis-leading his audience.
   
   Every one of the points that the author raises as reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney is a misrepresentation or demonstrably false. Most Catholics know this and know that Romney is a good man that shares their values and can be trusted to turn the economy around and make this country more prosperous and morally stronger. This is why they (Catholics) voted overwhelmingly for Romney over Santorum and Gingrich in the Republican primaries. This is why they will vote overwhelmingly for Romney over Obama in the Fall. It is simply tragic for the author, who I assume is Republican, to encourage fellow Republicans to pray that Romney loses. A Romney loss is an Obama win, which I hope no Republican is praying for. I lived in MA during the Romney administration and I can assure you that he is a man who is both strongly Pro-Life in his personal convictions and that he stands up unashamedly for Pro-Life issues as a politician.

4. jpaYMCA

   1 year ago

   Most of these comments do not confront actual sentences in the article! People are either upset with the "tone" of the article, the sources (BOTH Mormon, Catholic, and "third-party", shall we say), dispute the pro-life/pro-choice claims ... but in doing so repeat, substantially, what the author of the article writes: abortion is allowed. Yes, CURRENTLY, on the LSD website(s) it reserved for "special cases", but the Mormon and Catholic reader should understand the Catholic position: abortion, per se and directly procured, is NEVER allowed according to the Catholic Christian Faith and according to historical Christian doctrine - never.
   There are lots of "ad hominem" arguments in the comments, contra the author and pro-Mormon because of some devote Mormon neighbor. The point of this article is that Mormonism is not Christianity by the historical (and current Catholic) judgment of universal Christianity because it does not have a Trinitarian baptism or belief. That is biblically founded in John's Gospel, c. 3, Matthew's c. 28, Mark's c. 16, and it is implicitly ubiquitous in the Acts of the Apostles.
   Finally, the Mormon commentators may wish to search historical archives for proof of the foundational Mormon positions in regard to ensoulment, implantation of the human spirit, etc. Almost all Mormons shy away from this study, but those who do always find a skeleton in the closet ... one hidden by the current elders.

5. abey

   1 year ago

   Free Masonary & its subjects, even unto its Christian projection is condemned by Christ in a clear revelation, for its lead is not to Jesus Christ unto God, but to the false one Kris'na to the Baal of 'ole & his consorts in the various names to all those Secret Mysteries, in whatever avatars . That which Christ condemns stays condemned in the Spirit & truth of it, for even the god of this world standing before the Christ does not speak (for none dare) unless spoken to, knows this very well. Greatly appreciate the Catholic & the other churches who have rejected masonary, guided by none other than that Oracle of God, but unfortunately it seems America has elements of it in its foundations, that which is becoming clear in the works, desperation will increase even in the meeting to its Appointed time, without exceptions..

6. Brucer

   1 year ago

   Walter Sobchak states that Mormonism separates people from their cultures and traditions. He says that, as a former Mormon, he himself has been separated from his Scandinavian heritage. I suppose that Walter, who left the Mormon Church, may have family or friends who are yet LDS who may feel he has left them and has abandoned their LDS traditions, customs and culture. I would hope that they support his decision, however. I suppose that the same charge of cultural alienation might be said of Jews who become Christians, Catholics who became Lutherans, Episcopalians who became Baptists, or anyone who changed religion at all. Essentially, what Mr. Sobchak argues for is the maintenance of one's religious heritage, regardless of what one's religious beliefs may be. I believe Christ had an answer for that argument when he said, "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Matthew 10:37). I have met many good Catholics who are Catholic because of belief and conviction, not convenience, maintaining tradition, or fear of culture erosion. Following one's understanding of God's will for me would trump my worries that my Dutch heritage may get watered-down.

7. ccs

   1 year ago

   Some Mormon commenters have talked about Mormonism helping people live a more fulfilled life. The Mormon kid I knew in High School band hanged himself at 16. The only question was whether his death resulted from suicide or auto-erotic asphyxiation. Mormonism clearly did not help him to live a more fulfilled life. I knew a weak Catholic, a writer struggling with alcoholism. He left his wife and child to chase after a Mormon home-wrecker. He became a Mormon, and his alcoholism became more pronounced. He divorced the home-wrecker but remained a Mormon, has since remarried, and his writing has become increasingly racist. Now he's talking about killing himself as soon as he has finished a couple more writing projects. Mormonism probably is not to blame for making him more alcoholic or more racist, but it's obvious that his new religion did not help him to live a more fulfilled life. I know another 16 year old raised as a Mormon who realized that he no longer believed Mormon teachings. He was last heard talking about killing himself because he feared being ostracized by his family and the surrounding Mormon culture if they realized that he no longer believed in Mormonism. Mormonism obviously has not helped this kid to live a more fulfilled life. I realize that this is just a small and random sample from which a general principle cannot be derived, but I grew up in the West, and I have quite honestly known more miserable Mormons than happy Mormons. Sure it's true that Mormonism (or any other -ism in our culture) can allure weak Catholics. And sure it's true that a religion as invasive as Mormonism can compel people to live a specific surface lifestyle. But I suppose if Catholics were watching people all the time, trying to force them to conform, we might be as successful as Mormonism is at coercing specific external behaviors. But we respect free will and the communion of saints. Catholics who are honestly seeking the Truth, ultimately return to the Catholic Church.

8. Jesse Bardsley

   1 year ago

   I'm surprised the author says he is so familiar with Mormons, but yet he doesn't know that the Mormon Church is staunchly pro-life. I've been a Mormon my whole life, and I've never actually met a pro-choice Mormon that I can remember. Mitt's previous position was a unique aberration, to say the least, and a contravention of church doctrine, to say the most. And, further, I don't understand how the doctrine of a pre-existence of the spirit would make us pro-choice. We have no doctrine about when the spirit enters the body. So as far as we know, it could be at conception. Does the Catholic Church actually have a doctrine stating that the spirit is created at the moment of conception? If so, I guess I can see your logic. But because the LDS Church is pro-life and we regard the leaders of the Church as apostles and prophets, we also have an official doctrine that pro life is the way to go.

9. ccs

   1 year ago

   "As for Obama,we know for certain he is a lying ,hatemonger of the first order. Romney, who does not seek the destruction of his opponents as Obama does, is a much better choice." - I have no intention of voting for Obama, but if we are being accurate, we'd have to say that Romney's tactic in the primary was to use absolute and total destruction of his adversaries, usually by relying on lies. Your point about how Romney conducts himself is not based on fact. "Catholics are just upset because Mormons convert their flocks." - Erm, seriously? Mormon wolves may grab a few weak Catholics from the flock, but we have absolutely nothing to fear from Mormonism. The gates of Hell will not prevail against the Catholic Church.

10. Alex

    1 year ago

    Here is the formal, official policy and doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the subject of abortion as quoted from Handbook 2: Administering the Church. This is also the position of believing, practicing Mormons.
    
    Handbook 2 is available on-line and you can see for yourself the Church's position on this and other policies pertaining to moral issues.
    
    http://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/selected-church-policies?lang=eng#214
    
    
    21.4.1 Abortion
    
    The Lord commanded, “Thou shalt not … kill, nor do anything like unto it” (D&C 59:6). The Church opposes elective abortion for personal or social convenience. Members must not submit to, perform, arrange for, pay for, consent to, or encourage an abortion. The only possible exceptions are when:
    
    1. Pregnancy resulted from forcible rape or incest.
    
    2. A competent physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy.
    
    3. A competent physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.
    
    Even these exceptions do not justify abortion automatically. Abortion is a most serious matter and should be considered only after the persons responsible have consulted with their bishops and received divine confirmation through prayer.
    
    Church members who submit to, perform, arrange for, pay for, consent to, or encourage an abortion may be subject to Church discipline.
    
    As far as has been revealed, a person may repent and be forgiven for the sin of abortion.
    
    

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