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Should Disordered Appetites be Civil Rights? Comments

The Catholic Church will not change its position on the nature of marriage because it cannot. Truth is not up for grabs. Continue Reading

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  1. gobama
    5 years ago

    Marriage and heterosexuality have only become the cornerstone of family post-colonization. Pre-conquest, a lot of civilizations and societies allowed homosexuality.

    Clearly, imposed heterosexuality and marriage is not a cross cultural thing that defies ethnic boundaries. It's only in your skewed world view that this exists.

  2. Joe
    5 years ago

    Anyone who leaves the Catholic Church out of ignorance and sinful tendencies are only hurting themselves. You were never strong in your faith to begin with.
    Some people are just looking for a reason to justify their neglecting their christian duties. You are not hurting the Church. In fact, the church is stronger without wishy washy people trying to bend the church to conform to their beliefs.
    Get over it, it won't happen, become a protestant. Heck...start your own church and make up your own sabath day, or call it the "Church of Perpetual Sleep in on Sundays". Yeah, that will help your cause.
    Even with all the protestant churches, the Catholic Church still stands as strong as ever. Every time someone could not agree on something they left to start up something on their own. You can too!!! Woohoo...you can make an infomercial on it.
    The Catholic church is not here to give in to you or your sinful whims. It is here to guide and nurture your soul. If you don't want the truth, form your own church or do as you wish.
    I would hate to be in your shoes on judgement day. Life is a trial, and you will be your own judge. God will give you the grace to see how you conducted it and you will decide where you go. If you live your life running from the truth and God's light, you will end up in the darkness afterwards. Your eternity will be matchec by the darkness in your soul. I know I will have to atone for my past. So I am doing it here and being faithful to the Church. I love her and the faith loves me.

  3. Melissa
    5 years ago

    Reficul,

    Thank you for your response. I feel, as you do, that men and women each have a special and vital role to play, as ordained by God. You will hear no disagreement from me on the issues of homosexuality or on women in the priesthood. However, some of your posts seem to imply that you see women's role as being limited entirely to their sexual, procreative functions, and that is disturbing to me, even as the conservative, traditional sort of person I am.

    In a way, I guess I can understand why a man might share your view. Surely the way far too many women present themselves in our Western culture today does give the impression that even they believe that sex is the only meaningful purpose of their lives. But that is a misguided view that is out of line with Catholic Christianity.

    Forgive me for proceeding off-topic, but I'm curious about something else you wrote as well. You stated that woman's "role does not include having authority over a man." Under what circumstances precisely? If a man's boss at work is a woman, should he defy her? If a female police officer arrests a man, should he resist?

    If Pope John Paul II saw fit in his 1995 address to women to recognize and thank them for their contributions and service to others, not only as wives and as mothers, but also as daughters, sisters, workers, and religious, I would think any lay Catholic man ought to do the same.

    God bless,
    Melissa

  4. vsedriver
    5 years ago

    Laura said, "I'm disappointed at the Church's backward opinions. Perhaps this is why so many have left, as I am leaving."
    =================
    I'm sorry to see you leave but we each much choose our own spiritual journey. But I have yet to see what is wrong with the Church's 'opinions', beyond some individuals' opinions that they want what they want and it doesn't matter what impact it has on society or children. We all have our crosses to bear. Some just aren't up to the challenge.

  5. Katie
    5 years ago

    Melissa:
    You hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that those who disapprove of homosexual behavior as "haters" or "homophobes". I disapprove of theft, does that make me a hater? I am sick of seeing that. It's absurd. I have met many homosexuals that I have never hated or feared. I love them for who they are and not what they do. It's no different than how I feel about my brother that continues to have extramarital relations. I love him, but I don't approve of his behavior. It's not any different. For those who say homosexuality does not hurt anyone are wrong. I don't want my children to grow up and think that any unnatural relationship is good, nor do I want them to think it is ok to live with someone out of wedlock. Wrong is wrong, but what does hate have to do with it? Seriously? It appears that the most vocal about it on the homosexual front are those that feel it is a God given right. It's not. The thing that God gave man, that he will not interfere with, is FREE WILL. The Catholic church is right on this matter, and has an obligation to speak against any intrinsic evil, whether it be homosexuality, or any other sin for that matter. The Catholic church is obligated to teach it's members and the world what Christ had intended for his flock. He did not want one to be led astray. There are millions in America alone that have been led astray by the liberal media, and the evil one. The evil one teaches pride, greed, and hatred. Those are among his most prized characteristics. People may feel this movement is monumental and world changing. You are right, but it is not a change for the good. It will lead us into further problems. Just remember, when your children go to school and you want them to learn about homosexuality, don't get upset if they learn about Christianity. To quote someone voicing their support of homosexuality; "It doesn't hurt anyone". It's amazing that the basic principles this country was founded are are being tossed out when it's not convenient. This country is being torn apart from the inside. We don't need the world to beat us down. We are doing a good job ourselves. We should rename ourselves The United States of Sodom and Gomorrah. The land of excessive, and the home of the secularists.

  6. Patrick
    5 years ago

    "Even the APA deemed homosexuality a disorder until only recent (most likely due to pressure from gay activists) but they have said there is no "gay gene"."

    Recently? The 1970's was recently? I'm always amazed just how much power to influence and intimidate the anti-gay forces assume homosexuals have over everyone else. How, exactly, do you propose that the few percentage points of the population that are homosexual have more influence over an organization like the APA than the 80+ percent of the population that is Christian?

    Are the gays some sort of supermen? Do they have magic powers of persuasion and intimidation that the poor Christian majority can't compete with?

    Maybe the truth is simpler, maybe the APA removed homosexuality from their list of disorders almost forty years ago because after many years of careful study, they realized it isn't a disorder.

    Naw, that couldn't be. That actually makes sense. It must instead be part of the gay conspiracy.

  7. Laura
    5 years ago

    I'm disappointed at the Church's backward opinions. Perhaps this is why so many have left, as I am leaving.

  8. Reficul
    5 years ago

    Melissa:
    "I hope the writer simply misspoke. I'd hate to think that as a woman, my only purpose here is to be an outlet for my husband's sexual desires and to procreate."
    I did not 'mis-speak'(does that mean lie, or make a mistake?). The problem with this whole debate is that the fundamental point is being missed. Everything has a purpose, and an action is wrong if it goes against this purpose. Women have a role to play - the producing of children - but their role does not include having authority over a man. Equally, the purpose of a sexual relationship is not achieved through homosexuality. We must supress any desires which conflict with this truth. Women may desire to be priests, but this is not part of the natural order. Some men may feel attracted towards the same sex, but they too must bury this impulse. The clergy provide a role model of sexual abstinence - their celibacy is an example of how it is possible to supress sinful desires for the purpose of following God's law.

  9. Pete Brady
    5 years ago

    A good friend of mine not infrequently quips, "De-nial is not just a river in Egypt." It is abundantly clear from the most recent responses that not a few of them come from people in very serious denial.

    They offer no rationale for what they want beyond "I want it." And in this they are not unlike a spoiled, immature child ranting that they will hold their breath until they get what they want. Not going to happen. So you better take a breath.

    One response states that we should realize "that each particular faith is a choice, and not the truth." It is encouraging that this person at least realizes that there is truth. Unfortunately they have come to a forum that is Catholic, and to be Catholic we know that Jesus Christ, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity, God Himself, stated, "I AM the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life (Jn 14:6)." So, yes, in the Catholic Faith we "choose" Truth --- the only TRUTH that is Jesus Christ. And because He founded the Catholic Church the fullness of Truth exists only in it.

    Another response claims that basic rights are being withheld from LGBT people; presuming of course that "marriage" to a person of the same sex constitutes a basic right. A simple observation is in order: if it were a basic right to "marry" a person of the same sex then such marriages would have existed for millennia, and the "hot button" topic now discussed would have long been rendered moot. Such is not the case, however. Marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman, and ALL have that "basic right."

    Yet another suggests that "love" is not understood. Far from it, we understand love quite well. Love is living for the good of the other. If we truly love someone then we do not stand in the way of them possessing the ultimate Love, the ultimate Good, which is their last end, to have eternal Life, Love, and Joy in Jesus Christ after our mortal life here on earth is ended, in recognition of and as a just reward for "keeping His Commandments".

    Then there is the "declaration" that our "attempt (at a) logical argument...is patently specious." Except that no proof is offered beyond their own declaration being "only declaration()." To which they would add that "homosexuality is not a behavior." Huh? Pick up any dictionary and I would venture that you will find that it says that homosexuality is the "manifestation of sexual desire toward a member of one's own sex" or "erotic activity" with same. Behavior. The salient feature of homosexuality IS the behavior of "having sex." It is patently specious to say otherwise.

    Next we have the classic reproof. If a person states the moral truth they are only advocating that the USA become a "theocracy." Why? Why is that? What is really being said is that we don't mind hearing from the others (when they don't remain silent) because they will not stand up for what they believe in, BUT you Christians, Catholics in particular, are so bothersome that we want, nay, demand, that you go away. Faith may to a certain extent be personal but we have been admonished not to hide our light but rather to let it "shine before men (Mt 5:16)." To this must be added that our life must be enlivened with our faith in fulfillment of that prayer Jesus taught us, the Our Father, "Thy Will Be Done on Earth as It is in Heaven."

    "Gay rights is THE civil rights issue of our time." Mere presumption. Rights exists by virtue of the natural law not by a mere presumptive declaration. To be a civil right it must first be a natural right. To know if it is, one must have knowledge of the natural law. St. Thomas Aquinas says that it is knowable but that it is "blotted out in the case of a particular action, in so far as reason is hindered from applying the common principle to the particular action because of concupiscence or some other passion...or by vicious customs and corrupt habits, as among some men, theft, and even unnatural vices." You will not find it stated anywhere except in the fantasy of certain minds that "God made heterosexuals AND homosexuals." To the contrary, Jesus said, "Have you not read, that the Creator, from the beginning, made them male and female. (Mt 19:4)"

    There are those who would do well to listen to St. Thomas Aquinas more. On the matter of marriage he said, "That is said to be natural to which nature inclines, although it comes to pass through the intervention of the free will; thus acts of virtue and the virtues themselves are natural; and in this way matrimony is natural, because natural reason inclines thereto in two ways. First, in relation to the principal end of matrimony, namely the good of the offspring...a child cannot be brought up and instructed unless it have certain and definite parents, and this would not be the case unless there was a tie between the man and the definite woman, and it is in this way that matrimony consists. Secondly...just as natural reason dictates that men should live together, since one is not self-sufficient in all things concerning life, for which reason man is described as being naturally inclined to political society, so too among those works that are necessary for human life some are becoming to men, others to women. Wherefore nature inculcated that society of man and woman which consists in matrimony."

    A couple closing observations. The "100% certainty" expressed in one of the responses may need to be re-visited and dialed down as the various legal challenges to the standing of the Church as well as other Biblical testimony being given by both lay and religious persons in this country and others as to the immorality of homosexuality is already occurring and says otherwise to that 100% certainty. And for that individual who says that what we state as the moral truth "means nothing to me" then you should logically not even be registering your own opinion here.

    Finally, regarding the assertion "you have already lost the battle," I reply in the words of my favorite American Naval Hero, John Paul Jones , who saw a likewise ultimate victory --- "I HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIGHT!"

  10. Melissa
    5 years ago

    Why is "gay marriage" even a subject for debate? Nothing is currently stopping two homosexuals from living together as a couple. Nothing. So why is this still an issue?

    Yes, from a purely religious perspective, our Catholic faith teaches us that it is wrong to act on homosexual urges, just as it is wrong to act on urges to steal or lie or do violence. But legally speaking, while the law penalizes us for stealing, lying (in some situations), or doing violence, nothing that I know of is stopping anyone in this country from acting on their homosexual urges. So what exactly is the complaint here?

    I have nothing personal against homosexuals. Actually, I feel sorry for them. I would hate to carry that terrible burden. It's kind of like being an alcoholic, because it's a problem you must deal with throughout your entire life. Three of my family members have struggled with it for years.

    But I wish LGBT activists would stop calling folks who object to a redefinition of marriage "haters" or "homophobes." That's just ridiculous. It's not a matter of hate or fear. Using the alcoholism analogy, if you know someone is an alcoholic (I've got those in my family too), you don't blame or ostracize him/her. But at the same time, you don't support the alcoholic behavior, right? That doesn't mean you are hateful or phobic; on the contrary, you reject the behavior out of love and care for the person.

    P.S. On a side note, I was amused by the post that read: "If we have lustful thoughts, then it is better to marry to provide an outlet for our sexual desires. This is what women are for - this and the purpose of procreation. But for a man to sleep with another man, this is not something that fits with any natural purpose."

    I hope the writer simply misspoke. I'd hate to think that as a woman, my only purpose here is to be an outlet for my husband's sexual desires and to procreate. Not to degrade either of those important functions, but I think women bring more to the table than just that, thank you very much. For evidence of that, consider that many of the female saints never married or had children.

    And by the way, it is just as much a sin for a woman to lie with a woman as for a man to lie with a man. What really bothers me is how some men -- even so-called Christian men -- think gay male sexual relations are offensive and wrong while lesbian sexual relations are "hot." Ugh. Despicable.


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